Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: If you're looking for the skills and.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: Tools to succeed in real estate investing.
[00:00:05] Speaker C: You'Ve come to the right place.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: This show is about breaking through barriers.
[00:00:10] Speaker C: Breaking through limiting beliefs, and breaking through.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: To the life that you want to live through the power of real estate investing.
[00:00:17] Speaker C: You're listening to the Breakthrough Real Estate Investing Podcast.
[00:00:21] Speaker B: And now, here are your hosts, Rob.
[00:00:24] Speaker C: Brake and Quinton D'Souza.
Good morning, good afternoon, whatever it is for you guys, welcome back to another show. Excited to have another opportunity to learn about real estate and speak to Quentin D'Souza, who's here with me again. Quentin, how are you?
[00:00:43] Speaker A: I'm doing well. How about yourself? How's everything going in Costa Rica?
[00:00:47] Speaker C: Everything's fantastic here. You know, I have no complaints.
You know, you can come down here, Quinton, and there's plenty to complain about. There is, but, you know.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: What do you mean if I came down, there'd be something?
[00:00:59] Speaker C: No, not you. I'm just saying. Okay. If one searches for things to complain about, you can always find things.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:04] Speaker C: You got to look on the bright side.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: It's all listening. You know what? I came.
Yeah, Yeah, I. I came. I came back from three weeks in India, and there's a whole bunch of things you can complain about, but you could just go with the flow and enjoy. And I choose to just enjoy. And I had a great time all through the south of India. It was really good, my first time there, so it was. It was really cool. And I'm off again next week for a cruise.
[00:01:31] Speaker C: What was the highlight? Let's not glaze over this. Let's take a quick highlight of what? You know, the best part of that.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: Vacation, best part was I reconnected with family that I never met before. And. And like, I have cousins and, you know, second cousins that I connected, which was really cool. And I learned a lot about my family history that I. I found secrets, actually, which is kind of cool. So that was really good and I enjoyed that. But, you know, I. I did, like, a small group tour with, like, 10 people and got to connect with them. I like. I just love the, like, Goa, which is in South India, is, like, beautiful. It's like Costa Rica, except cheaper. And it was. It was awesome. I. I really enjoyed it. And I would go back again. Same with the Kerala backwaters. I. I really love that. Those two places I back to in a heartbeat. In India. I did not. I liked Mumbai, but it was just too fast paced. There's 30 million people in a city. It's gigantic. Right. So it was a Little too crazy for me, but, like, the people that I met, even in the busy cities and stuff, everybody was really friendly and, and everybody spoke English, which was crazy. So it was. It was good. So I enjoyed that. And then on top of that, we've had, like, craziness here with Trump and tariffs and all the stuff happening. You know, like, latest announcement was 25 aluminum steel tariffs. But, you know, we're starting to get to that point. Where have you ever had that parent that threatens a bunch of stuff and never follows through?
[00:03:14] Speaker C: Well, I'm guilty of that sometimes, too, but I actually didn't think it was an empty threat. But, you know, I guess. I guess the thing is. Look, man, can we get JT to just stop talking? Is that possible?
[00:03:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I was thinking about that years ago, but, yeah.
[00:03:34] Speaker C: Really?
[00:03:35] Speaker A: No, I'm not a fan, that's for sure.
[00:03:37] Speaker C: But we got to get some systems in place to make that happen. I mean, you can announce retirement and then just keep talking, talking.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: Yeah, we've got some. We definitely need some stronger leadership. And proging parliament is just not a really smart move at this time. With a new president and with all the tariff threats and all of that, and, you know, there's some. Some challenges. But I think also on the upside, if you want to look at it from an upside perspective, it's going to put downward pressure on interest rates, not only particularly in the. On the long end of the curve, which I think is beneficial, but also on the short end, you know, that could put downward pressure on interest rates as well, which I. It, you know, is going to make for a good position for people, you know, people like me, too, who are looking for refinancing. I've got a bunch of apartment buildings I wanted to refinance this year. So in the fall, in spring, maybe even summer, it could be in a good position to do that. So I'm pretty psyched. And I finally sold the property that I had listed for forever.
[00:04:48] Speaker C: Oh, that's amazing. Good stuff.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. I bought it for like, 166k, like back, I don't know, 2012 or something like that. And we sold it for 700. So we got a little bit of a spread on it.
[00:05:01] Speaker C: Yeah, let's see. You see that? There's the thing that people don't understand is you didn't just buy it and sit on it. You unlock, like, some hidden value in the thing that, you know, no one else was seeing, and. And now, all of a sudden, it's way more valuable than anyone Thought it was right.
[00:05:16] Speaker A: Well, we had to do a minor variance in order to get the basement suite in there and, and then get it done and, and added value that way. So it was good.
[00:05:25] Speaker C: Well, I got a quick question for you. Okay. So I, my, my thought is that the American dollar is going to strengthen, you know, quite dramatically in the next, you know, couple of months here. Do you see that having a positive or a negative impact on our dollar?
[00:05:45] Speaker A: Oh, that's definitely going to have a negative effect on our dollar.
[00:05:48] Speaker C: That's what I, I thought. You know, unfortunately, I think most of the time it's the opposite.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: But, but then some parts of our economy and, and our guest is going to be a great asset to talk a little bit about this too is that, you know, energy is priced in US Dollars. So that, that actually has a, like a different effect on the economy. But of course, you know, tariffs and all the other stuff that that's happening are going to go in the opposite direction. But it'll definitely make for some interesting challenges. I mean, for me, the way that I hedged that is that, you know, we, we bought a bunch of properties in, in, in Florida in Tampa. So I've owned those since 2018 and I get paid in US dollars for those and that helps tremendously for, for us as a hedge in order for us to be able to, to go and visit the properties in Florida when we need to. So that's been quite helpful on that and offsetting some of our other costs. So that's, that's been, you know, one way to kind of hedge against that as a real estate investor. But you know, definitely I, I see that going to affect the dollar and could actually push up inflation. So that's, that's a challenge as well.
[00:07:06] Speaker C: You know, if I can sort of segue into introducing our guest here. One of the, one of the really interesting places to invest in Canada. At least, you know, over the last few years we've seen and talked to, to certain people about this is, is, is Edmonton.
So today we have Wayne Hillier with us. And Wayne and his wife Gabby were guests on the show episode 143. That was four years ago. So Wayne is going to share the big changes that have happened since then and all things Edmonton real estate investing. So welcome Wayne.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you. It's, it's good to be back and isn't it cool that I, you can say that Wayne was on the podcast four years ago and I haven't been like accused of fraud or anything since.
[00:07:54] Speaker C: One of the very Few Canadian investors. Right.
Yeah. Anyways, not yet.
[00:08:00] Speaker A: Oh, no, no.
[00:08:03] Speaker C: Hey, hey, no, that's great. You know, I mean, look, and it's funny because I think there's something to be said for those people that build their reputations online where I think for the three of us, you know, we've got good names and we didn't necessarily build that reputation online.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: Right.
[00:08:20] Speaker C: It wasn't all flash and glitz and look what I did to bring in your partners. I mean it was, it was real, you know, like cases of what you've done Right. In the past that brought you, you know, able to work with partners and that kind of thing.
So not just look at my boat, you know, you could have a boat like this too if you invest with me, right?
[00:08:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:46] Speaker A: They haven't paid, they haven't played the cash flow game if they got a boat. Because they wouldn't have a boat.
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Yeah, no way.
[00:08:54] Speaker C: Right now. Anyways, one of my best cash flowing student rentals now is like, is just barely scraping by, you know, So I, I hope to see that turn around relatively soon too. But you know, it has been a challenge over the last little while. But anyways, you got a bio there for Wayne, don't you?
[00:09:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So. Wayne is a seasoned real estate investor with nearly 15 years of experience. He embarked on a transfer transformative journey in 2020, transitioning from a career in oil and gas into full time real estate investing all before the age of 35. Renowned for his mastery of creative selling financing strateg, Wayne generously shares his expertise by coaching aspiring real estate investors, empowering them to leverage these strategies for financial freedom. Echoing his own path to success as a visionary founder of Multiple7Figure Real Estate enterprises, Wayne seamlessly blends profound industry knowledge with entrepreneurial spirit in every pursuit he undertakes. With the freedom created through real estate investing, Wayne now focuses solely on fulfilling endeavors including raising his daughter, building new businesses, and also inspiring and guiding new real estate investors to follow their dreams and find fulfillment in their own lives.
Wow, that's impressive.
[00:10:22] Speaker C: You know what's funny is that didn't look that long when I sent it to you, but man, I didn't know.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: You were gonna read it. I thought you're just gonna put that in the show notes.
[00:10:31] Speaker C: Well, it's gonna go in the show notes too. We get quitting to read everyone's bio.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:35] Speaker C: As well. You gotta, you gotta. We need to know who we're talking to.
[00:10:38] Speaker B: Yeah, that, that's fair. And you know what I mean, it's maybe I Would have used some more simpler words to make it easier to get through. But yeah, ultimately that, that's, that's me, you know, real estate investor. Coming up on 15 years. Most of, most of my focus is just on doing now today is doing the things that I like doing the things that fulfill me and that's, you know, raising my nine year old daughter and, and I like making businesses. You know, I'm, I'm kind of at the phase now where it's like buying another cash flowing rental property wouldn't really improve my life or improve the trajectory of the future of my life. So now I'm just focused on building businesses that are more focused on active income and leveraging the portfolio. They already have to be able to support that. So I'm at a different stage now. And, and I bet you the story is completely different than when I was on the podcast back in 2020. 2020.
[00:11:28] Speaker C: Right, because you were still in your job then, right?
[00:11:31] Speaker B: I. No, I left in 2020 actually. So I've been out of my job for.
[00:11:36] Speaker C: Oh, okay.
[00:11:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I left during the pandemic. So that was. Yeah, it was, it was 2020. Yeah, it's been great. You know, I had been building side hustles and businesses on the side while I was working and one of them really just exploded and it's the pandemic and you know, reduced hours at work and then having this business. I just decided, you know what, this is the time. And I was also getting an opportunity to spend a lot more time with my daughter at that time because she was at home doing what do you call it? Not online learning. Online learning, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, so I was, I got to like do schoolwork with her and stuff. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna totally ride this out. And I had the cash flow from our portfolio, I had the cash flow from our businesses. I was just kind of like hanging on to that pension and you know that the golden handcuffs of having a really good career. So.
[00:12:23] Speaker A: Yeah, okay, so you're gonna have to tell us what the businesses are because you can't just be general like that. I, I'm gonna drill into specifics because I don't, I'm, I'm, I'm a.
[00:12:34] Speaker B: So some of them, I'm a little more, I don't talk about them as much because of just the, the proprietary stuff. But we have a mortgage seller financing business, we have a rent owned business. And just recently, last year I signed on and partnered for a new accounting firm for real estate investors. So Interesting. On top of that, we do fix and flips as well, but just not so much recently just because of the market where we're at. There hasn't been much, but you know, it's just been a combination of that. Plus we have a coaching business as well, so we're very, very, very busy and we got our hands in lots of different stuff.
[00:13:10] Speaker C: So which one is the one that took off?
[00:13:13] Speaker B: That was the seller financing business. That was that.
[00:13:15] Speaker C: Okay, so tell us a little bit about that, how it works and you know, maybe we can get some more people involved in it.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: That's the one. I don't want to talk about the podcast. You literally just jumped right into the one.
[00:13:27] Speaker A: Of course that's what we do.
[00:13:29] Speaker C: This is what we do.
[00:13:30] Speaker B: Wayne, can we just talk about the topic we agree agreed on?
[00:13:33] Speaker C: What was that?
[00:13:34] Speaker A: I never agreed to. I don't know what you're talking about.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: Yeah, so we, it's, it's like a, it's kind of like a quasi rent to own type business basically where we offer, we offer homeownership solutions to, to families, but it's, it's not quite rent owned. It's, it's a combination of that. But I'll tell you the reason why is because I went on a bunch of podcasts back in like 2021, 2022 and I talked about it because we were raising funds for it, we were looking for equity partners. And then through all of that, even with NDAs, people just went and stole all the information and tried to do it themselves and piss poor job, ruined the whole like trust in the community for the people that we were reaching out to. And as well, a lot of people got burned. So that was the whole reason why I just went, you know what, I've got my own funds now. We got our partners, we just keep that to ourselves.
[00:14:18] Speaker A: But yeah, that, that's, that's fair. Like it, once you have, it's the same when you, after you've raised capital for a while. Like I've been doing this since 2004 and I, I'm not seeking a lot, I'm not seeking really more partners anymore to raise capital because I already have them. And it just means, you know, actually you can cause problems in your business by taking on new partners or new clients. Right? Yeah, but sometimes it's better just to, to know with who you're dealing with and then work with the ones that you really like and that's it. Right. So totally get what you're talking about. So you, so you've you've made some big changes since 2001. Maybe you can share a little bit about that too.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: Well, we just kind of made a transition, I mean, obviously kind of focusing more on business building. But our main focus, we still purchase properties in Edmonton, Alberta, that is like now own properties all over Alberta, Calgary, Edon, Leduc, and you know, that's been our big major focus since we got started. That's where we still buy properties, just not nearly as much again because, you know, we kind of face back. But, you know, in the last couple years, I've actually started picking up more properties again because of like what Rob was saying earlier, the changes in what's going on in Edmonton. You're just hearing, you know, stuff, you know, down south and quitting here and stuff out east and whatnot. So. But here, what, what we know, know that this is like hands down the best opportunity in Canada. Hands down. And I can tell you that with absolute certainty. It's been amazing since 2016, about 2015, 2016, tons and tons of opportunities in this market.
[00:15:52] Speaker C: And what we've heard mostly is that like the, the, you know, there's, I guess a lack in all the red tape that some of our, our municipalities out here have put in place. Right. Where, you know, it's a lot easier to get things going there.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, you're probably referring to what people like to call in the Facebook groups, MLI select deals.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I have a problem with some of the numbers that I'm seeing there and the underwriting on those deals. So it's not just that.
[00:16:21] Speaker C: It's just developing in general. You know, we're getting your permits and that kind of stuff.
[00:16:27] Speaker A: Friends all over the place. And, and one of the, the guys that I talk to out in Edmonton is like the, the people are having real problems even closing on those MLI selects now because, because of the issues, maybe you can share a little bit about that. So. And a context too. I know we don't want to, but we want to make sure that we make people aware of what's happening. Right?
[00:16:50] Speaker B: Sure, sure. So obviously January of last year is when it came into effect. They cut all the red tape. They started allowing more densification in Edmonton, made it so much easier to put more units on, on, on bigger lots. And instantly that coupled with the, the new Life select program back in 2022, that people just saw a huge opportunity. Now we can finally find those 50 by 150 lots, pick them up for 300k, slap 4 townhouses of basement suites on it with a couple garage suites in the backyard. And we can just add so much value to this property. And then after the rents have increased, it's worth significantly more. So everybody just jumped on this between January last year until now. And you know, like you said the issue was at first it was like a no brainer, the math was working, but it was just like every Facebook group, everybody's asking how to do it in Calgary, how to do it in Edmonton, mainly Edmonton because it's cheaper. And what ended up happening was that people were just like jumping on it and putting down deposits and hiring builders and not really truly knowing how to run the numbers. And then the problem is that a lot of people are getting construction loans or buying it with private financing and then their plan is to refinance with MLI CMHC afterwards. Problem is CMHC is looking at this and everybody's like, oh my realtor told me that I can get 95% loan to value in 50 year M. The guy on the Facebook group said I only 5% down. Well now what they're finding out is that their DSR isn't meeting or the dcr, sorry, and it's not, they're not meeting yet and they're having to put more money in in order to close. So instead of getting 95% loan to value, they're getting like 87 or 86 and they're like, I've only got two. A hundred thousand dollars, I don't have another 200 to close. So this is literally what we're seeing right now. And it's, it's very unfortunate because what's happening is a lot of newbie investors are getting into this thinking only 5% down and they're, they're getting burned. So as many as, as many projects as we see getting built, we're getting, seeing just as many new completed ones being sold and people desperately trying to get out of them. So it's not cluster.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: Is the rents actually like, does it make sense with the decent. Like are they, are they qualifying on the MLI select with actual rents or are they like estimated rents?
[00:19:13] Speaker B: Actual rents. So you have to have them fully rented before you can actually go to the refinance. So the other problem is the performers are having hyper inflated rents and then when people actually go and try and fill them, they're not working out.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: So it's the opportunity here though, like what about taking, do you think you could step in on some of those and perhaps take, take advantage of those? Not take, I mean, sorry, that sounds.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: Like, this is what we do, right? This is what we do.
[00:19:41] Speaker A: We're solving problems. So like, so the investor who thought they had 5% has a problem which is 200k. I have 200k and I can solve that problem. So how can I do this to take advantage of the situation? What would you say?
[00:19:57] Speaker B: Oh, I mean, if you were in that position, you were looking to be a passive partner, then I would say maybe negotiate a really good.
[00:20:03] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. That's just it couldn't. Shook his head no, though, right?
[00:20:06] Speaker B: It's like, yeah. Do you really want it?
[00:20:08] Speaker C: Yeah. You don't want to give your money to this guy who's already.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: But what if you took over the deal?
[00:20:12] Speaker C: Could we take over the go over the deal?
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: Well, then whoever started it would take a loss on whatever their original deposit was.
So they would essentially be getting a lifeline, you know, just to get out of it. Yes. Because they can't sell it at a loss. I mean, if you sell it at a loss, you'd have to sell it privately because your realtor commission's going to chew up all your money anyway. So it's like, it's actually not good. To be completely honest with you. I don't, I haven't seen anything. I, trust me, I've just like you, man. I'm an entrepreneur. I think about, okay, people are screwing up, how can I solve their problem and profit from it? But I don't see any solution to it. I, I, you know, I had a coaching call with someone about six months ago and this was like the first person that actually came out and was honest about it because I knew this is going to happen back in March. I was looking at it. I'm like, this is not sustainable. And it was about July, August, something like that. Someone reached out to me and said, hey, I'm hoping someone can help me run the numbers on this deal that I just closed on. I just got tenants in it. And I'm like, no offense, if this person's watching, okay, there's, there was five people that called me, so it was one of five.
Okay. So, but anyways, they said, I'm thinking to myself, like, why didn't you run the numbers beforehand? They're like, well, my realtor told me it would be this, and I just don't know how to run the numbers. So I ran it with her and found out she was negative 800amonth in cash flow. She didn't even know. And this was like one of her first properties. And I was like, ah, this is absolutely terrible and there's nothing I can do to help her unless of course she tries to raise the rents even more. But the market is the market, so that's kind of what we're seeing right now. And I, to be honest with you, I don't think it's completely fully happened yet. I think there's so much in construction and there's so much uncertainty right now with cmhc. I'm sure you guys heard some other news about CMHC recently and their little closed office discussions and stuff and what's going to happen with that. So a lot of uncertainty around the financing right now. And I'll just end with this. My thoughts when I first saw this was that like, okay, it's cool, I think if it makes sense on, on a 30 year RAM and 80% loan to value, I'll do it. And then the bonus would be if I could get better loan to value and better amortization, it'll increase it more. But I always want to know that I can fall back on standard financing terms just in case things don't work out well.
[00:22:26] Speaker C: And just off and just off of the top of my head, I mean being able, with the densification that they're allowing, right. And, and just, and the ease of access to this type of thing, it seems to me like they would be pretty easy to find that like am I, am I missing something?
[00:22:45] Speaker B: Find, find what?
[00:22:47] Speaker C: Find properties that work for that. Because I mean if you're, if you can throw up, like, I mean just loose numbers like you said four, four townhouse units with basement apartments, you know, on one, like it seems to me that the numbers would work at a 30 year amortization and, and, and you know, regular rates like, but then you.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: Have, you have the, the population changes and the like rents that, that would affect the value of the property because it's an NOI situation, not a comparable situation, so could really mess up especially if you're underwriting at a higher like rent rate, right?
[00:23:31] Speaker C: So I don't know man, just imagine my realtor saying to me, yeah, you can get what, 90 just to make the sale? Like I'm not gonna believe them right away.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: So I mean, still happening every single day. I see it every day. You get the realtors posting it and. But the truth is, is that when it first happens, the loss, nobody there was no value for those lots yet. The, the value of the lot was based on what the house was worth at that time or what the land was worth worth. So people instantly got, went Land grabbing as much as possible at the low values. Before everybody caught on that you can go and buy 50 by 150 lots or corner lots and you can add whatever the. I can't remember the cost of it off the top of my head. Maybe 900. No, I can't remember that. I'm not even going to say it. But the cost to build it and the, you know, the, the remediation and whatnot and the asbestos removal, etc, the demolition that plus like 275, $300,000 for the lots, the numbers made sense. But as soon as people found out that there was this huge opportunity, suddenly the value of that land started going up like crazy. And so everybody scooped them up. All these mature neighborhoods instantly got torn down. It's like you walk through these neighborhoods now and it's like they're completely different. They used to be 1950s wartime houses. Now they're all like. It's four stacks everywhere. So now that the demand has gone up for it, the price for the land has gone up and as well everybody's trying to buy the finished products as well. So the value of the, of the actual finished completed project deal is also gone up as well. So the numbers don't work. They rarely work anymore to buy it and to construct it and to create equity and also the after repaired value, what people are selling it for, those numbers don't work anymore because it used to be for a 4 Plex of basin suites it was like a little under $2 million. Now it's 2.3.
The numbers don't work anymore. You know what I mean? Based off the market rents. So it's just math and I think that it's completely done and people are starting to talk about it and people are, we're starting to get small little whispers about it but nobody's admitting anything publicly because they don't want to admit they're wrong. So I'm keeping my. I did. When you started bringing this up, I started like I should bite my tongue because I started bringing this up last year. And I'm like go is not sustainable. And I mean they started lighting pitchforks. I saw your lighting torches and grabbing pitchforks. And they were like, don't you dare say that. And I'm like whoa, okay, calm down. We can just wait it out. And here's where we're at right now. And it is what it is, you know, it's. That's just one opportunity in.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: Right. So what are some other opportunities? And like why Edmonton? What is that market yeah.
[00:26:10] Speaker C: What is working?
[00:26:11] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know it's, it's. Edmonton has actually had huge opportunity back since 2015 and we, Edmonton and Calgary were, were set in like we were in motion to start realizing some huge gains or huge value increases in our real estate because we were way behind other areas of the country like Ontario and, and many other markets. Now what ended up happening was in 2016, oil price crashed and instantly it just like we, you could see the trend, you could see the graph. It went like this and it went and it stopped. And then so we started picking back up again. 2018, 2019, things started moving upwards again. We're like, okay, finally it's gonna happen. 2020 Covid so 2020, 2021. We know we're all wearing masks. Everybody kind of held off a little bit. So Edmonton and Calgary just been like waiting, waiting, waiting. 2000 late 2021 comes instantly we start going up big time. Like the end of 2021, early 2022. You go look at the news, it was absolute madness here. Multiple offers over asking. It was crazy.
March 2022 was the first interest rate announcement from the bank of Canada. And then the second one came a couple months later. Instantly it went complete halt. Edmonton stopped and we kind of stopped right there. Calgary just kept on freaking going though. And that's where that literally Calgary's been on like, like this since 2022. Edmonton's been on hold. But what ended up happening was as interest rates started like stopping, you know, going up and then these started coming down. Late last year we've seen Edmonton start to rise again. So we've known that the values are going to go up for a very long time. Here. This, it's. It's just been, we just been hit with every economic catastrophe we can get hit with. And throughout that whole process, you know, there's been guys like me and some other people, not many but you know, some people that just been slowly building their portfolio with good cash flowing assets. Assets. And that's the thing is that you know, it's part of like the fundamentals that I teach as well is that like, you know, you got to make sure that you know, you, you want to invest in a market that has huge potential and this market has tremendous potential. But at the same time, you know, you also want to, you remember that you're not just buying an asset, you're buying a business. And that business needs to function as a cash flowing business like any other business would. You need good reserves, you need good cash flow, you need to Be putting money back into your reserves. You need good clients. Right. So we focus on teaching that as well. And that's what we, we, that we do. So we bought good cash flowing properties that were able to ride out that storm. 2016, no problem. 2020, no problem. 2022, no problem. We've literally had so much cash flow that they haven't even slowed us down at all. They haven't hindered us at all. And now finally we're starting to realize that appreciation. So I have properties that were literally worth exactly the same or less for like 10 years. They didn't go up in value, but we made like 20, 25% returns every year on investment just based off a mortgage paid on and cash flow. So that's, that's the opportunity that we've been trying to teach here to people. But nobody wants the slow and steady, everybody wants the fast cash. They're like, how can I get it for 5% down? How can I get 50 year rams? Right. We've been focusing on residential real estate, the cash flows and that's a huge opportunity.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: And I think that, that, you know, now that you're seeing the, the benefit of that, I think that now you look like a genius. Right. So that's, that's the, but the challenge is being able to get there. Like I've had who bought properties in Edmonton back in 2008 and their, their values are just coming back to what they were when they bought at that time.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: Right.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: And people don't understand that markets work that way because they don't. They live in Ontario and they see, you know, you know, what exactly is going on in Ontario and they think the same thing happens in different parts of, of the country and it doesn't really have to understand the market, but once you, once you see what happens in a particular market and you know, they, they've gone through the cycle and at a specific point in the cycle you get that appreciation, real boost in, in, in a particular area, then you start to make some serious money in those properties. So you get your 20, 25%. But really once you, when you've seen what's happened the last few years, what has your return been like?
[00:30:28] Speaker B: Oh, it's been ridiculous.
[00:30:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: So no, you never bank on appreciation.
[00:30:32] Speaker A: No, no, you don't.
[00:30:32] Speaker B: You know what I mean?
[00:30:33] Speaker A: It's, it's a dessert, as Thomas Buyer used to say. Yeah, but what would you say that return is, is like currently just in.
[00:30:43] Speaker B: Appreciation, Just an appreciation in 2023, the average. So we have different types of Properties we have houses with secondary suites, townhouses and single family houses, 2000s and then a couple side by side duplexes with basement. Those all on average, some of them went up 25, some of them went up 40. So it's about an average of 30% appreciation, not ROI appreciation in 2023 and in 2024. So we saw about a 60% growth in our portfolio which equates to what is that times 5, 300% ROI just in appreciation in the last two years.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, and there is so.
[00:31:18] Speaker B: Much more room for growth.
[00:31:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's amazing. And that's what, that's what you want to be able to see. It just, you can't always get that. But that's what gave the Toronto and Vancouver condo market the ability to continue to grow because of that appreciation. The problem is that once you don't have appreciation and your costs are higher than what you pay every month or you get every month. You know, you see condos now that are negative 3,4000amonth and they're not, they're worth less than what they bought them for. People are going to, you know, just scurry like cockroaches away from all of those types of investments and you'll find it very difficult to bring people back again because they'll be burnt. Right. So it's going to be really interesting to see, but it's nice to hear that you're seeing that in the Edmonton market. So what, so what strategy would you say that you, you know, encourage people to use when in Edmonton right now, currently?
[00:32:24] Speaker B: Well, the strategy I've been telling people since 2023 and into 2025 now is to buy good cash flowing, long term buying holds. Now is the time to be picking up properties that actually make sense in the short term as a good business, as good cash flowing properties and then just ride out the appreciation. And the, the idea for that is that worst case scenario you get a good 15 to 20% return guaranteed just on mortgage pay down and cash flow. And then best case scenario you get all of the appreciation. So we always want to make sure we're buying it so that it works in the short term. Worst case scenario is no appreciation and then hopefully you realize all that appreciation that's coming as well. I've been very patient since like, I mean we started in the early 2010 so I bought most of my like, I started really picking up around 2015, 2016. That's when we purchased a lot of them. We've been waiting patiently on those properties for 10, nine, 10 years. So that's what I've been telling people for the last two years because I knew that we were seeing this appreciation. I knew if people were going to want to ride that, that, that swing, then what you're going to have to do is you're have to build it, right. So you got to focus on the types of properties that have good cash flow, that the rents, the market rents can cover the expenses so that you're not in a situation like condos in Toronto where as soon as the music stops, you know, suddenly you're, you're dizzy with your pants down. Down.
[00:33:42] Speaker A: Oh yeah. And everybody wants to keep their pants on. Well, I guess it depends on what you're. Anyways, let's not go down there. Okay, so. Oh, this is going down fast.
[00:33:52] Speaker B: Sorry, sorry, I, you didn't, you didn't give me any rules for this podcast.
[00:33:59] Speaker A: As soon as I got on this.
[00:34:00] Speaker C: Keep your pants on. That is one rule we do have that I thought it's one of those ones you don't feel like you have to say though, Wayne, you know.
[00:34:07] Speaker B: Yeah, that's why I got a medium shot on this camera right now.
[00:34:10] Speaker A: So do I.
[00:34:11] Speaker C: So I don't know talking about, but you know, I believe that, you know, the advice that you're given is, is good advice for any time really. You know, so aside from that, like can you still. Can you still. Is is there still opportunity for good cash flow in like single family homes, let's say, or what kind of properties are we needing to look for now?
[00:34:32] Speaker B: Well, the most popular ones are townhouses. Obviously. Last year everybody was jumping on that building the four plexes with the basement suites. But a lot of people have been very, very excited about townhouses ever since 2021. There was a huge opportunity in townhouses and we really helped a lot of people out with that, like showcasing that and showing how incredibly undervalued it was. So we were buying up townhouses in 2021, 2022 for like 120, $130,000. They're worth 250 now and just in a few years. And they are by far the best cash flowing properties is like cash on cash, you know what I mean? Like not like a per door, like 100 per door. Like we look at how much cash flow per, like how per how much you invested on cash on cash. And cash on cash. It is hands down the best cash flowing opportunity in Canada. But it's very like unknown. Not many people talk about it. The people who know about it. They, they, they, you know, because they know it's amazing. And but the, the other thing is that, like, a lot of people don't like condos. They don't like, you know, the fear of. Of condo boards, special assessments and. And condo fees and stuff like that. And that's just because they don't.
[00:35:40] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:41] Speaker B: Right.
[00:35:42] Speaker A: All right, Wayne, I gotta challenge you a little bit because that's what I do. I. So my, one of my mentors, I, I'm sure you, you know, is a joint venture specialist. And he focused on the, the Edmonton area. I think it was Edmonton or Calgary in the townhouse kind of side of things. And what happened to him was that the townhouse values decreased at a really, you know. You know who I'm talking about. I'm sure he won't mind. Russell Westcott. Right. And he got into a lot of trouble and he's shared the challenges that came out of that. How would you look at that from his lens and what, what mistakes that he made that you think you could. That you're avoiding here? Oh, I know I'm making it hard.
[00:36:34] Speaker C: How are you better than. How are you better?
[00:36:38] Speaker A: No way.
[00:36:42] Speaker C: Is it. Quentin, can we, can we just sort of quantify this? It's not a recent issue that he had.
[00:36:48] Speaker B: No, it was.
[00:36:49] Speaker C: Right. Yeah. That was like.
[00:36:50] Speaker A: But this is a cyclical issue. It's a cyclical issue. This is the problem.
[00:36:55] Speaker B: 100 and that's perfectly okay. I mean, had you not said his name would have been a little bit easier. But the problem is that actually the thing is that he's not the only person that, that exactly. You probably, because you've been around for a long time, you probably have a whole friends list full of people that have in that day.
[00:37:08] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:37:08] Speaker B: And I know lots of them too. Most of them didn't make it out. The few that did are just finally catching up to the values right now because they were buying them at 250 back in like 2, 2007. And then some of them even bought them in 2016 at 250. And then they dropped off and they're just getting back right now. They had to ride it out. You know how many people I've met over the years that have been like, hey man, I'll give you seller financing on a townhouse for. For 25 years. Okay? And I'm like, wow, that's amazing. And I'm like, how much down? He's like, zero. I'm like, whoa. And he's like, the price is $300,000 but it's only worth 170. Like that's literally. There's so many people like that that have been holding on just like just for dear life. So yes, you're right. In 2008 that's like everybody was buying those things up and that was a different time. There's such a long story to this. I'm going to try and simplify it as much as possible possible. I am, I'm, I study real estate investing history so I, I know what to avoid so that's why I'm so knowledgeable in this. But in 2008 people were buying them in the mid to high two hundreds and you're talking like your two story cookie cutter 1970s townhouse, no garage, same thing. And so that right after that they completely just went down over the next few years they went down like 2012. It was at a low and then it started going back up again when oil started going up in 2015 and it reached a peak and then 2016.
So condos, historically that's their nature and I tell it to everybody. You got to understand condos, apartments and townhouses, that is their nature. I will tell you that townhouses have a little more, they're a little more robust than apartment condos. Apartment condos, man. When things are great, apartment condos are great. When they're not great, they are terrible, terrible. They will just drop right off. And townhouses are the same but not as bad. And the reason why townhouses have done so well recently is because of interest rates and affordability. That was the main reason why I was telling people to jump on. It was because when interest rates went up to 6 to 7%, first time homebuyers, the average family in, in Canada makes what like an average working class family makes 120 to 150 if you're lucky, 150k a year. Any of you guys mortgage brokers? How much are they approved for? What's their buying power on a 5% CMHC mortgage when they make $150,000?
[00:39:33] Speaker A: Like 300. 250.
[00:39:36] Speaker B: Yeah. At 7% interest it was like 250, 270. So when you're looking at buying your first home. Yeah, when you're looking at numbers man.
[00:39:45] Speaker A: Yeah, mortgage broker, just saying.
[00:39:47] Speaker B: But when you're looking at buying your first home and you want, you got three kids, you're not going to be moving into an apartment. So what are your options? You can find the cheapest single family house in Edmonton at that time. Like 300k ish right. Or you can get into townhouses. So we knew that there was going to be huge demand for first time home buyers for that particular product. Even when interest rates came down to five and then whatever, four and a half. Now still most people are only pre qualified for 370. We knew there was going to be a demand for those types of properties for the family that has two kids that want to go to school, they're not going to go to apartments, they're going to go townhouse or single family family house. That's the major demand. So that's why we've known that townhouses are going to do so well. We also watch and study Calgary as well. Calgary is our, is our big brother and whatever happens in Calgary happens in Eden. It's super simple. But you know, Calgary townhouses have hauled on really well throughout this whole thing. Now you know, how long am I going to hold on to these townhouses? I don't know. We're still figuring out exit strategies. But long story short, you know, they've been cash flowing really well. And that's the other thing. See when people were buying them in 2007, they were like 50 bucks cash flow.
I was buying them in 2022, 2023 and 2024. We're talking 700 cash flow. It's completely different. Right, because the rents have gone up. Because the rents are so high. Because that's another thing we have got the rental market which is, which is doing its own thing. You know, got to keep in mind rental market and residential real estate market are completely two things, right. And we're trying to pair them together but the rental market has been chaos as well and rents have been going up and people are trying to find the most affordable thing. So the demand for rentals in townhouses has gone up as well.
[00:41:25] Speaker A: But there's all those other units that are coming online now from the construction of those infill developments. How does that affect the rents and do you think that that will have future effects? Because the, the benefit of Edmonton and Alberta is the fact that you can, can build so fast. The problem for the existing landlords is that you can build so fast. So like how do, how does that affect your, your underwriting on those townhouses because of that, you know, build effect?
[00:41:56] Speaker B: They're not the same, they're not the same asset class. Because those townhouses that people are building, what they are essentially are, is their houses with secondary suites. Like think about it like you got your main floor and you got your basement suite suite, right? That's all they are. They're a main floor and then a basement suite and then they got some garage suites in the back. And then I, I almost, I call them Lego houses because I look at them, we call them suited houses in Alberta, but we have a suited house and then just stack. Another suited house and another suited house. Another suited house. So you can have, you know, two. I'm blurry, sorry. You know, two. Or you can have four or one in the middle. Yeah, so it's, that's, that's essentially. So those are actually, we compare those to houses with secondary suites. The rent on the main floor on one of those new ones is the exact same as the rent on a bungalow main floor.
[00:42:40] Speaker C: Well, they're all on the same property too. Right. Like so they're, they're coming in the rental market. They're not coming on as, as, as resale homes for the most part. Right, right, right. So essentially drive the rent down a little bit, but it's probably not going to have like a huge overall impact act.
[00:43:02] Speaker B: No, it's just it g. It gave tenants another option. So before it was apartment condos, one or two bedrooms. So you had your basement suites, you had your main floor suites, you had your single family houses and then you had your house with a secondary suite. Right. That's what tenants had to choose. Right. Sorry, remove the last one. But now we've added another one on there where it's like normally main floor suites and basement suites were in older 1960s, 1970s houses in mature areas. Now you've got high end main floor suites, you know, two stories and you have small basement suites. So just added more options and then if you just plug that into, you know, let's say the market rent for a main floor is 1,900. Well now you just kind of plug it. Just gave them another option. So if I'm a family, I'll simplify it. If I'm a family that can only afford $2,000 worth of rent and I've got two kids, I need three bedrooms. What are my options? I got a townhouse that comes to the basement. I can do a single family house which the rent's like 2100. I can do a main floor of those new townhouses with the basement suites. That's 1900 and that's it. So like it just gave it one more option. That's all it was. It added a little bit more of that particular stock in that price range or that rent range. So it just, it did affect the whole main Floor market, rent a little bit, but otherwise it didn't really affect single family houses and townhouses.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: It's interesting because like, it's almost like it added to the rental stock but not necessarily the, the single, like the purchasing stock, if you could call it. Right.
[00:44:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's strictly investor packages. That's all it is. It didn't, it didn't affect residential real estate at all, actually, except for the fact that anyone who owned a house in a mature area that had a large enough lot, suddenly their value of their house went up dramatically because demand was there to tear it down and build something on it. Otherwise it didn't affect the residential real estate market at all.
[00:44:55] Speaker C: Are you doing all long term rental?
[00:44:58] Speaker B: Yeah, well, we have rental. We have a rental business as well, so.
[00:45:01] Speaker C: But no, no Airbnb stuff. Like no core stuff purchased to do Airbnb.
[00:45:05] Speaker B: No. I don't want to piss. I pissed enough people off today. So I'll share. I'll save my thoughts on Airbnbs and short term rentals. You know what I think that short term rentals were. Short term rentals were really good for people that really needed it as a solution. I'll just put it that way.
[00:45:21] Speaker C: Surprising to me when you're saying, okay, the cash flow is 50 bucks and now it's 700. I understand that part of that is you're buying at 250 versus 150, but that seems quite dramatic.
[00:45:32] Speaker B: Interest rates went down in 2021, obviously. So back in 2021, there was really good interest rates at that time. So obviously our mortgage payments went down. Plus the rents on a townhouse went from 1200 to today it's almost 1800. So there's a big difference there. Rents went up and then there was a particular time where interest was where interest rates were down. So again, just depends. I could, if I had a whiteboard, I could show you the math, but.
[00:45:59] Speaker A: Oh, that's my favorite. Okay. Yeah, we'll have to do that another time.
Tell us a little bit about the Edmonton Real Estate Investing deal Lab workshop. Mastering Edmonton Real Estate Investing eight week program.
[00:46:12] Speaker B: Oh, it's two separate things.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: Oh, oops, sorry.
[00:46:17] Speaker B: That's okay. No, we got a couple upcoming events here and we got a couple upcoming events and also a program that we're putting on. So the Edmonton Real Estate Investing Deal Lab is on February 22nd. That's an in person workshop.
So all this stuff that, you know, we've talked about today has been revolving around just like mathematics and that's. That's all I teach is that don't follow the gimmicks and don't follow the gurus and stuff like that. Just focus on the math. If we can just teach you, one thing is how to analyze the deals yourself to underwrite them properly. So that way you can make an informed decision and not just based off of what someone said. So that's what the deal lab is all about. We've had, we've done a small handful of these already and we're basically 10xing it now. So it's a much larger event, a much larger workshop and you get to come there and we will literally work with you. It's an interactive workshop where you're gonna, we're gonna look at a real life deal on the market and we're gonna run through the numbers with you and show you how to find the numbers, show you how to plug it all in in, show you how to figure out what the cash flow is, show you how to figure out what the return on investment is and help you determine the difference between a good deal and a crappy deal. So that's coming up on February 22nd. We're very excited for that.
[00:47:20] Speaker A: Awesome. And then the other program, the eight.
[00:47:23] Speaker B: Week, I haven't even announced this yet but I, you know, I thought about it, you guys were asking about stuff that I got coming up and I'm like, you know what, it's going to be announced here in the next week or so so I might as well say it because I think the podcast will be delayed. But the, we got a new eight week program, Mastering Edmonton Real Estate Investor Investing. So that's another thing is that there's been so many people reaching out asking who knows anything about Edmonton. And you know, I've got a podcast with over 800 episodes where you can listen to all of them. But some people are like, I want a more structured program specifically to teach me how to invest in Edmonton. So it's an eight week program. We're basically going to dive through everything Edmonton. We're going to go through neighborhoods, we're going to go through different asset types, we're going to go through market rents and how to find them. Basically just break it down so that if you want to invest in Edmonton, here's how you do it. Super simple and in a, in a very structured course like module like approach, which is what most people like.
[00:48:13] Speaker A: And they don't have to be in person. Right.
[00:48:15] Speaker B: Like it's, that'll be online.
[00:48:17] Speaker A: Online. Okay.
[00:48:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So anybody can do it. You don't have to be in Edmonton because I know there's so many people in other provinces that are wanting to invest here but they're getting such conflicting information and it seems like every time you ask a question, there's always some string attached to it. Which by the way, I'm offering an eight week program but it's. You know what I mean, we're keeping it affordable and it's just, it's. It's. We're gonna do it right. And I think that if anyone who follows me or has been following me for a long time, it's very easy to find everything about me, you'll know that I'm a pretty honorable person. And I don't bs. I just really just want to help people and I think there's an amazing opportunity here for people to take advantage of that. The window is closing on and I'd like to see more people get involved and do it right. So that's.
[00:48:55] Speaker C: So you mentioned that you had done a couple of these other deal lab workshops before. So if you do miss the one coming up on the 27th, it's only going to be like a little over a week from when this episode airs or drops or whatever you want to say.
So is there a website where they might learn about other ones that are might be coming up as well?
[00:49:19] Speaker B: See, the good marketing and sales professional I am would say this is the only one. You gotta go, we're never doing this again. We'll do another one in like six to eight weeks. Don't worry about it.
We're planning on doing this on a regular basis. This, this is a new format. We used to do it for two hours. Now we're doing it for six hours. So we're trying out a new format. We've added so much more things to it. Interactive, immersive, like really just like working with everyone individually.
[00:49:43] Speaker C: Two hour thing is the one where you can upsell to the six hour thing. There's no way you can't get to. No, no.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: It's going to be the weekend. Then you go to the eight week.
[00:49:51] Speaker C: Well, no, you can't get too much in two hours though. I mean you got to have a format like the six hour thing.
[00:49:56] Speaker B: I think if you've ever really into any of my stuff. Stuff. I'm not that guy. I'm not.
[00:50:01] Speaker C: No, no, I was just kidding about that.
It's real hard to get too much in two hours.
[00:50:06] Speaker B: Oh yeah, it was, it was just straight up analyzing a deal and then we said thanks. So Much. Bye. And there was like nothing.
[00:50:11] Speaker C: Right, right. This one sounds good, you know.
[00:50:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:50:14] Speaker C: Get into it a little bit more and.
[00:50:16] Speaker B: But I'll say like if you're interested in investing in. In, in Edmonton. The other thing is that I've got a podcast now. Some might argue it's better than this podcast. Some might argue.
Ouch. Oh, kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
[00:50:32] Speaker C: I'm not laughing. That. That's not true. I just thought that was funny.
What is the podcast called? Go ahead, tell us about it.
[00:50:39] Speaker B: Here's what I want you guys to do. I want you to be. If you haven't already, I want you to smash that like and subscribe and leave a rating and review for the break view break for you.
[00:50:48] Speaker C: Oh, man, he doesn't even know the name. What the hell?
[00:50:50] Speaker B: Real estate investing podcast. I've been listening to this podcast since the beginning, first of all.
[00:50:55] Speaker C: Okay, well, he noticed that I missed even saying that at the beginning of the show.
[00:50:58] Speaker B: Yeah, you're gonna go five stars, leave a rating, say this. I mean this episode was amazing. Thank you so much. And then you're gonna go do it on mine as well on itunes.
[00:51:09] Speaker C: So what's yours called?
[00:51:11] Speaker B: The Real estate investing morning show.
[00:51:13] Speaker C: Okay, great.
[00:51:14] Speaker B: We've been doing that for. Since 2019 and I do it with my, with my wife Gabrielle every single weekday morning at 6:00am Mountain time. So you can tune in live. We haven't.
[00:51:26] Speaker C: Do you not like go to the local radio station, get yourselves on there?
[00:51:32] Speaker B: We wanted was. We wanted that feel for that morning show vibe. We wanted people to be able to wake up, brush their teeth, make their coffee and listen to the morning show. And it's got a completely different kind of vibe because it's just me and my wife and banter and there's a couple curse words and we talk, we. But like everything we talked about today, this is what we talk about every morning. We talk about what's going on in the news. It's very topical and I was very heavy on Alberta and Edmonton and California, Calgary because that's our markets. So if you're. It's. It's. We cover all of Canada. But it's very. If you're very interested in Edmonton, that would be the place to listen to. You don't have to listen live. We've got 800 plus episodes on Spotify, itunes. Wherever you listen, there's over. There's close to 900 hours of information you can listen to from the last five years. Tons. Just search up Edmonton and on there and then you'll be able to pull all the information you need, like pop.
[00:52:19] Speaker C: In to different, you know, different.
Wherever the market was at a certain time. Right. And just sort of hear the differences between what was going on then and now.
[00:52:31] Speaker B: It's really fun for, like, I told you sos too.
[00:52:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine. So. So how many of those do you have? Is it. So is it like between you and your wife or is it between you and like, whoever. Whatever the market was saying? Is that what you're. Or a little bit.
[00:52:46] Speaker B: How many? Oh, you. Oh, no.
[00:52:50] Speaker C: It'S like. Like you're not. You're not going. Hey, Gabby, you said this.
[00:52:55] Speaker A: Listen, hey, we're not trying to get Wayne in trouble here, man. Like, we gotta stick together. We have to stick together here.
[00:53:02] Speaker C: Yeah. And so you didn't answer me, though, about the. Is there a website for the deal lab workshop?
[00:53:09] Speaker B: Www.reimasters.ca okay.
[00:53:15] Speaker C: Okay. Remasters ca. Of course. That'll be in the show notes and everything.
Yeah. And. And how else can people reach out to you?
[00:53:24] Speaker B: Facebook and Instagram is easiest. I keep my. Keep my cell phone to like three people. It's like my wife, my dad, and my mom. They're the only people that know my cell phone number. But you can also email us if you're interested in learning more about other events at infoeimasters.ca. but the easiest way is just to reach out through DM on Facebook or Instagram and then we'll kind of connect you and you can see what kind of events we got going on and workshops and online in person, stuff like that. We hold lots of stuff and we're always giving out free education.
[00:53:51] Speaker C: So is it REI Masters on those platforms?
[00:53:55] Speaker B: No, myself, just my name, Wayne Hillier.
[00:53:57] Speaker C: Okay, good stuff.
[00:53:58] Speaker A: Put it in the show notes.
[00:53:59] Speaker C: Yeah, we'll have it in the show notes. I just like to at least say it one time in the show.
[00:54:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:54:05] Speaker C: So thank you, man. Thanks for coming on and sharing all this. It was pretty insightful. I appreciate it.
[00:54:09] Speaker B: Thank you so much. And it was really cool seeing you, even though you didn't see me in. In Costa Rica there. It was really cool seeing you there and I thought it was awesome. And I. And I love your neighborhood. I mean, like, I. I mean, not in your neighborhood. I was peeking over your gate a little bit, but.
[00:54:23] Speaker A: Wow. So Wayne is stalking Rob. Just so we know that there's some stalking going on. We have to. You guys have to get a restraining order for Rob.
Sorry, Wayne, we're gonna have to cut you off now.
[00:54:39] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
[00:54:40] Speaker C: Yeah, no, thanks for coming on and it was short notice, so I do appreciate that too. You know, you, you, you stepped up and filled in when we needed somebody in here. So I appreciate that a lot. Thanks for your time and success on the deal Lab workshop and everything else coming up. So thanks again. And go to the show notes. Get in touch with Wayne and Quinton. How can people get in touch with you?
[00:55:00] Speaker A: Oh, you can visit Quinton D'Souza.com we can set up a 15 minute call, chat and talk about real estate. And Rob, how can people get in touch with you?
[00:55:10] Speaker C: Just email me@RobisterBreakthrough CA Again, thanks everybody for listening and we will see next time. Have a good one.
